Saturday, 1 June 2013

Random Chats With Believers IX

You know you can never have a logical argument when you get these types of answers. I was debating (well I thought I was) a Christian about the acceptance of gay boy scouts, which for some reason is an issue for the tax exempt boy scouts. So no matter what any Christian tells you, by being tax exempt they are getting special privileges from the government which means it is illegal for them to discriminate.Anyway the tax point is moot towards this argument so lets move on.

After pointing out that I think this is a positive move by the boy scouts.... you know the whole anti-discrimination thing is a good value to teach children. The counter argument by this brilliant debater was to give a few biblical reasons why gays in the boy scouts will destroy the organisation and and and. His argument was not a good one, but I was prepared to entertain it (for the whole argument see the full transcript below). So this was my reply.

I will ask you one question. If homosexuality is so wrong according to the bible. Why did God create homosexual animals besides humans? if you can answer that....well then you are proving the existence of a god and you can get it published in Nature/Science

To which he replied:

God did not create homosexual animals. Animal behavior is not the same as human beings anyway. As to your desire for "proof," the real question is whether you can prove that "in the beginning nothing created everything that is," or that this ordered and highly complicated world could come as a complete result of an explosion in space. God exists. He is real. True science proves it....over and over.......

Then I said and this is where it gets interesting.


Ok something can come from nothing, its called the Casmir Effect. Google it and inform yourself about this illogical argument.
As for homosexual animals. Are you saying that homosexual behaviour in animals does not exist. If you do again you are horribly wrong and need to do your research. And god created animals just as god created humans according to you. So why would he choose homosexuality in some and not others.

This is his reply and when the debate ended for me.

There is no such thing as your fictional "Casmir effect." That idea is as stupid as "global warming." The planet is cooling. Nothing that is came from nothing. Sounds like you're cooking up your own religion to me. Creation is fact. Big Bang and Evolution are theories....and wrong hypotheses as well........

If this happens ever in a debate for you. Just stop the debate. The person you are dealing with will never change until they educate themselves and this is clearly not going to happen as they are saying what you are presenting is fictional. When someone says scientific evidence is fictional there is actually no point to continue. Just tell them you will continue when they finally decide to have strong evidence to why they disagree with your evidence presented. Saying something is fictional is not a good argument.

We (atheists) say the bible is fictional but there are reasons why we say this. To say some scientific theory is fictional with no reasons why is ignorance.

Also this fool has assumed I am homosexual because I am defending a position which is rational and not based on a book written by a bunch of homophobes. I actually see this in many debates with theists about homosexuality, its as if they cannot grasp that straight people would be pointing out that the reasons they are homophobic are amazingly stupid.

For the full conversation see below. (Otherwise stop reading here as you may just get irritated)
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Christian Kemp 
Its good that the boy scouts have taken this positive step towards tolerance. Discrimination is a horrible thing especially in children as they are tomorrows leaders... imagine what could happen to the world with a bunch of bigots in charge.
pastoredsmith 
1) This is not a good move. It is a horrible move that will destroy the BSA. You should learn the difference.
2) This is not a positive step towards tolerance. This is a negative step towards intolerance of Christians. It is a slap in the face of all that is holy and right.
3) Discrimination? It is not discrimination to prohibit bad or wrong behavior, and homosexuality is wrong and damaging to boys and dangerous to the innocent boys who share a troop with those who desecrate human sexuality.
4) Tomorrow's leaders, if homosexuals and tolerant of such destructive lifestyles, will destroy the nation. It is not innocent behavior, it is not a "birth rite" to be homosexual, it is a choice and a sin.
5) The bigots in this situation are those who bully their way into the BSA with their pressure, the liberal media pressure, the name calling and the manipulation of people with the lies that this is "normal."
Bottom line. The BSA will be reduced to a very small organization due to this terrible decision to sodomize the organization. It is not hatred to oppose homosexuality, or to call it what it is....sin. Plain and simple, it is wrong and destructive behavior and God forbids it.

Christian Kemp
I will ask you one question. If homosexuality is so wrong according to the bible. Why did God create homosexual animals besides humans? if you can answer that....well then you are proving the existence of a god and you can get it published in Nature/Science
Also Why is this discrimination towards Christians. Do you feel angered that Christians are losing their privileged status in society where they can do anything they want and just say its gods will?

pastoredsmith 
God did not create homosexual animals. Animal behavior is not the same as human beings anyway. As to your desire for "proof," the real question is whether you can prove that "in the beginning nothing created everything that is," or that this ordered and highly complicated world could come as a complete result of an explosion in space. God exists. He is real. True science proves it....over and over. The burden of proof is on those who wish to change society....those who bully their way into power and influence. But, regardless of how many people are seduced by the lies of "normal" homosexuality, it doesn't change the truth. The truth is that it is wrong, the behavior destroys families, degrades human beings and is destroying organizations that embrace it; such as the BSA and our military. Time will prove this to be correct. But in the end, it is the lies you have been convinced of that will end up in ashes. The truth will never change.

Christian Kemp 
Ok something can come from nothing, its called the Casmir Effect. Google it and inform yourself about this illogical argument.
As for homosexual animals. Are you saying that homosexual behaviour in animals does not exist. If you do again you are horribly wrong and need to do your research. And god created animals just as god created humans according to you. So why would he choose homosexuality in some and not others.


pastoredsmith 
There is no such thing as your fictional "Casmir effect." That idea is as stupid as "global warming." The planet is cooling. Nothing that is came from nothing. Sounds like you're cooking up your own religion to me. Creation is fact. Big Bang and Evolution are theories....and wrong hypotheses as well.
I'm saying about animals that man and animal behavior do not cross. Animals do not question or get educated. Only man has that capability. Apparently, you need to take a refresher in animal biology. Animals do not have morals. Only Human beings do. And, in the animal kingdom, there are no "homosexual animals," with the definition that they live that way and were "born" homosexual.
God never created homosexual behavior. Man's fall into sin started it. Sin is the reason people choose it. Stop blaming God for your own sinful choices. Homosexuals choose that sinful behavior. They can also choose to abandon their sinful lifestyle and accept Christ. Plain and simple.

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For another Random Chat